Post by corey Robertson on Mar 30, 2007 13:13:57 GMT -5
Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, I've been trying to figure out which class I will play, and was hoping that some of you closed-beta captains could give me a bit of info. I've read quite a bit on the class already, but that is why I'm hoping for some responses from players who have already played the class, for an in-game point of view...
First, about the Captain's role/play-style. Pardon the WoW references here, but I need them to compare...
For these three classes from WoW, what does the captain most resemble?
-Paladin, heal/buff support.
-Warlock, pet class with different pets for various situations.
-Druid, jack-of-all-trades, master of none. Provides support in whatever area is needed.
Yes, I know this isn't WoW, blah blah, but of those three, which would the Captain be closest to? From the info I've read, it seems they would most likely be the Druid type, jack-of-all-trades.
Now, if that is so, are they really capable of providing support to the DPS/healer roles in a flash? As in, lets say you are in a group...On one pull things go bad. Healer needs a bit of help, you quickly start healing the group, healer has it picked up again, but now you need to add DPS. So you start swinging away... Does it work like that, and you can just switch roles at any moment?
Or would they need to swap equipment/switch their traits around in order to even be proficient in either of those roles?
Also, if they specialize for it with equipment and traits, will they be able to completely fill that role?
Second, are captains at all sought-after for groups? Or are they not needed? Will Captains be spammed with invites from the moment they log on, or will they be spending all of their time in Middle Earth solo and unwanted?
Third, in groups, what role have you primarily found yourselves playing? Mostly adding DPS, or throwing heals? Or just a buffbot? What do you spend most of your time doing in a group?
If anybody can answer these questions, thanks a lot in advance.
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#2 Yesterday, 08:49 PM
Kippy
Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Western Massachusetts
Posts: 14
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
60% Paladin, 10% (just the pet aspect) Warlock, 30% Druid... I would say.
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#3 Yesterday, 10:26 PM
Alecktra
Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 53
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Having never really played wow I really can't comment on how the play compared to WOW classes, but i can give you my thoughts on them in general.
Our pets are nothing more then a walking aura buff IMO, I mean yea they can attack and can take a few hits, but its nothing spectacular.
We get some pretty good buffs, but they are mostly set and forget for 15-30 minutes.
We do have heals, but as for Taking over the healing of the entire fellowship, I doubt we would even come close to what a minstrel can do. Our aoe heal can only be used for a short time after an enemy dies, and then it has to recharge for 30 seconds after that. Then we have our single target heal, but thats not gonna save the party from a wipe if things go bad for the minstrel.
Really how we would save the party would be with the use of 2 of our skills, Last Stand and In harms way. Last stand makes it so we cant die by keeping us with atleast 1 hp for 15 seconds, while In harms way lets us take all the damage our nearby fellowship members would normally for a short while. Using them both together, along with our aggro grabbing shout, should be able to by enough time for everybody to retreat or regroup etc...
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#4 Today, 02:27 AM
Colfox
Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 15
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handsome_Huss
First, about the Captain's role/play-style. Pardon the WoW references here, but I need them to compare...
Never played WOW, but...
Quote:
...heal/buff support...pet class...OR...jack-of-all-trades, master of none...
...ummm..yes....yes....and yes. That help you out? :-)
Seriously, we can heal, and we can buff. Can we be THE Main Healer...hehe...only if the rest of the fellowship REALLY works well together, and we don't take on anything too nasty. The Devs have told us that, with the right traits slotted, we should be almost as good as a Minstrel, but that is simply not true right now. No freakin' way.
We also can buff. Probably more than anyone else, but that's not saying much. We're all hoping for some buffing for our buffs.
Actually, we DO have a pet, but it's only one kind. The only choice right now is what kind of buff the banner he's carrying gives.
As for the jack-of-all-trades....I'd say that's the closest to the one-line description as you can get. We are the 2nd-best healers. We are supposedly tied for 3d in DPS, after the Hunter and Champion, and right with the Burglar. Nominally, we're the #2 tanks (behind Guardians), because we're one of the few classes that gets Heavy Armor, BUT...that just means we can take some blows...we can NOT pull aggro off a housecat. Again, we're hoping we geta little lovin' there too.
Quote:
...are they really capable of providing support to the DPS/healer roles in a flash?
Yes.
Quote:
As in, lets say you are in a group...On one pull things go bad. Healer needs a bit of help, you quickly start healing the group, healer has it picked up again, but now you need to add DPS. So you start swinging away... Does it work like that, and you can just switch roles at any moment?
Well...yeah. That's kinda how it can work right now, and I've done that. It takes a good fellowship to pull off stuff like that.
Quote:
Or would they need to swap equipment/switch their traits around in order to even be proficient in either of those roles? Also, if they specialize for it with equipment and traits, will they be able to completely fill that role?
If you do swap out gear and traits you will be better, no question, but also be more specialized in that one aspect, and not as good in the others. And, even with the swaps, you will still not be as good as the regular folks who do those jobs.
Quote:
Second, are captains at all sought-after for groups? Or are they not needed? Will Captains be spammed with invites from the moment they log on, or will they be spending all of their time in Middle Earth solo and unwanted?
You won't be spammed with invites, but you won't be alone either. Actually, in general, Turbine has done a fairly decent job of making all the classes useful, without making any of them absolutely essential. I've run in, and heard of, some pretty wacky groupings. Any combination can work, if everyone knows what they are doing. There is no "perfect" grouping, because any combination can also fail horribly if people get stupid and try to use their "normal" solo tactics while in a fellowship.
Quote:
Third, in groups, what role have you primarily found yourselves playing? Mostly adding DPS, or throwing heals? Or just a buffbot? What do you spend most of your time doing in a group?
Wow...hard to say. Before the fights, I'm buffing people. During the fights, I'm usually adding DPS, but I also have to be tracking the overall tactical situation, to decide which of my "on-death" shouts to use...where to send my Herald...which "mark" to toss on which enemy...keep an eye on any runners that Tank has lost track of...watch the Minstrel's Health...and...and I'm sure I'm forgetting forty-leven more things I do without even thinking about it anymore...like getting ready to save the fellowship's collective behinds at a moment's notice with my in-combat rez, or the afore-mentioned LS/IHW combo, or the beloved "Make Haste" (the only in-combat run speed buff in the game)...
Bottom line, you CAN fill many roles, IF THE GROUP YOU ARE IN IS WORKING TOGETHER AND USING THEIR HEADS. If you are good, and learn Captain tactics, you will be called on to alter your actions in a given fight more than any other character class (mostly because you CAN), and you will do a lot of things for your fellowship without them even being aware of half of it.
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#5 Today, 06:37 AM
freyjah
Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Western Colorado
Posts: 28
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Particularly fun were the 2 captain & no minstrel groups we were running in our lvl 35-ish, including GA.
The other capt tended to get over involved in DPS activity. I went in for pet control/management and healer role, former minstrel that I am. This worked well and once I adjusted the captain play style, we were able to go far without a minstrel.
I would love to get the next captain higher so I could explore just how strong a healer I could be.
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#6 Today, 07:35 AM
Ruthgarz
Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 30
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking in WoW terms very close to how Paladins were at release, and a little of the Druid. The Haralds can't compare to warlock pets.
Don't think in terms of character classes today, because they are so different than what they were to begin with.
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#7 Today, 09:28 AM
Ernest
Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 15
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the "What we wish other classes knew" thread, available here: forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=33284
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#8 Today, 11:38 AM
stpnwlf
Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 20
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I seriously think it will HAMPER your ability to figure out how best to play the captain if you keep trying to compare it to some other game's character classes. It isn't any of those and it's not really close enough for you to leverage the experience you have plying them, in my opinion. I really think the best way to approach Captain is to tell yourself, this is a totallly new concept - a melee/support class with a pet. I found myself inventing tactics and tricks I had never done before in 6 years of MMO gaming.
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#9 Today, 11:54 AM
Ghostiger
Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colfox
Never played WOW, but...
Actually, in general, Turbine has done a fairly decent job of making all the classes useful, without making any of them absolutely essential. I've run in, and heard of, some pretty wacky groupings. Any combination can work, if everyone knows what they are doing. There is no "perfect" grouping, because any combination can also fail horribly if people get stupid and try to use their "normal" solo tactics while in a fellowship.
I've found this to be pretty true. Player's grouping abilities have much more of an effect on a groups viability then their class abilities. Really any combination of classes can succeed. Of course that's not saying that there are some combinations that work better in some circumstances, but overall the 'Holy trinity' (healer, tank, dps) isn't a rule for grouping in this game.
And, for the record, grouping with other captains and/or lore masters is a ton of fun.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, I've been trying to figure out which class I will play, and was hoping that some of you closed-beta captains could give me a bit of info. I've read quite a bit on the class already, but that is why I'm hoping for some responses from players who have already played the class, for an in-game point of view...
First, about the Captain's role/play-style. Pardon the WoW references here, but I need them to compare...
For these three classes from WoW, what does the captain most resemble?
-Paladin, heal/buff support.
-Warlock, pet class with different pets for various situations.
-Druid, jack-of-all-trades, master of none. Provides support in whatever area is needed.
Yes, I know this isn't WoW, blah blah, but of those three, which would the Captain be closest to? From the info I've read, it seems they would most likely be the Druid type, jack-of-all-trades.
Now, if that is so, are they really capable of providing support to the DPS/healer roles in a flash? As in, lets say you are in a group...On one pull things go bad. Healer needs a bit of help, you quickly start healing the group, healer has it picked up again, but now you need to add DPS. So you start swinging away... Does it work like that, and you can just switch roles at any moment?
Or would they need to swap equipment/switch their traits around in order to even be proficient in either of those roles?
Also, if they specialize for it with equipment and traits, will they be able to completely fill that role?
Second, are captains at all sought-after for groups? Or are they not needed? Will Captains be spammed with invites from the moment they log on, or will they be spending all of their time in Middle Earth solo and unwanted?
Third, in groups, what role have you primarily found yourselves playing? Mostly adding DPS, or throwing heals? Or just a buffbot? What do you spend most of your time doing in a group?
If anybody can answer these questions, thanks a lot in advance.
Handsome_Huss
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#2 Yesterday, 08:49 PM
Kippy
Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Western Massachusetts
Posts: 14
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
60% Paladin, 10% (just the pet aspect) Warlock, 30% Druid... I would say.
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#3 Yesterday, 10:26 PM
Alecktra
Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 53
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Having never really played wow I really can't comment on how the play compared to WOW classes, but i can give you my thoughts on them in general.
Our pets are nothing more then a walking aura buff IMO, I mean yea they can attack and can take a few hits, but its nothing spectacular.
We get some pretty good buffs, but they are mostly set and forget for 15-30 minutes.
We do have heals, but as for Taking over the healing of the entire fellowship, I doubt we would even come close to what a minstrel can do. Our aoe heal can only be used for a short time after an enemy dies, and then it has to recharge for 30 seconds after that. Then we have our single target heal, but thats not gonna save the party from a wipe if things go bad for the minstrel.
Really how we would save the party would be with the use of 2 of our skills, Last Stand and In harms way. Last stand makes it so we cant die by keeping us with atleast 1 hp for 15 seconds, while In harms way lets us take all the damage our nearby fellowship members would normally for a short while. Using them both together, along with our aggro grabbing shout, should be able to by enough time for everybody to retreat or regroup etc...
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#4 Today, 02:27 AM
Colfox
Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 15
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handsome_Huss
First, about the Captain's role/play-style. Pardon the WoW references here, but I need them to compare...
Never played WOW, but...
Quote:
...heal/buff support...pet class...OR...jack-of-all-trades, master of none...
...ummm..yes....yes....and yes. That help you out? :-)
Seriously, we can heal, and we can buff. Can we be THE Main Healer...hehe...only if the rest of the fellowship REALLY works well together, and we don't take on anything too nasty. The Devs have told us that, with the right traits slotted, we should be almost as good as a Minstrel, but that is simply not true right now. No freakin' way.
We also can buff. Probably more than anyone else, but that's not saying much. We're all hoping for some buffing for our buffs.
Actually, we DO have a pet, but it's only one kind. The only choice right now is what kind of buff the banner he's carrying gives.
As for the jack-of-all-trades....I'd say that's the closest to the one-line description as you can get. We are the 2nd-best healers. We are supposedly tied for 3d in DPS, after the Hunter and Champion, and right with the Burglar. Nominally, we're the #2 tanks (behind Guardians), because we're one of the few classes that gets Heavy Armor, BUT...that just means we can take some blows...we can NOT pull aggro off a housecat. Again, we're hoping we geta little lovin' there too.
Quote:
...are they really capable of providing support to the DPS/healer roles in a flash?
Yes.
Quote:
As in, lets say you are in a group...On one pull things go bad. Healer needs a bit of help, you quickly start healing the group, healer has it picked up again, but now you need to add DPS. So you start swinging away... Does it work like that, and you can just switch roles at any moment?
Well...yeah. That's kinda how it can work right now, and I've done that. It takes a good fellowship to pull off stuff like that.
Quote:
Or would they need to swap equipment/switch their traits around in order to even be proficient in either of those roles? Also, if they specialize for it with equipment and traits, will they be able to completely fill that role?
If you do swap out gear and traits you will be better, no question, but also be more specialized in that one aspect, and not as good in the others. And, even with the swaps, you will still not be as good as the regular folks who do those jobs.
Quote:
Second, are captains at all sought-after for groups? Or are they not needed? Will Captains be spammed with invites from the moment they log on, or will they be spending all of their time in Middle Earth solo and unwanted?
You won't be spammed with invites, but you won't be alone either. Actually, in general, Turbine has done a fairly decent job of making all the classes useful, without making any of them absolutely essential. I've run in, and heard of, some pretty wacky groupings. Any combination can work, if everyone knows what they are doing. There is no "perfect" grouping, because any combination can also fail horribly if people get stupid and try to use their "normal" solo tactics while in a fellowship.
Quote:
Third, in groups, what role have you primarily found yourselves playing? Mostly adding DPS, or throwing heals? Or just a buffbot? What do you spend most of your time doing in a group?
Wow...hard to say. Before the fights, I'm buffing people. During the fights, I'm usually adding DPS, but I also have to be tracking the overall tactical situation, to decide which of my "on-death" shouts to use...where to send my Herald...which "mark" to toss on which enemy...keep an eye on any runners that Tank has lost track of...watch the Minstrel's Health...and...and I'm sure I'm forgetting forty-leven more things I do without even thinking about it anymore...like getting ready to save the fellowship's collective behinds at a moment's notice with my in-combat rez, or the afore-mentioned LS/IHW combo, or the beloved "Make Haste" (the only in-combat run speed buff in the game)...
Bottom line, you CAN fill many roles, IF THE GROUP YOU ARE IN IS WORKING TOGETHER AND USING THEIR HEADS. If you are good, and learn Captain tactics, you will be called on to alter your actions in a given fight more than any other character class (mostly because you CAN), and you will do a lot of things for your fellowship without them even being aware of half of it.
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Coldir -- 30 Captain (Beta2) -- Meneldor
Col-something --Captain -- Silverlode
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#5 Today, 06:37 AM
freyjah
Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Western Colorado
Posts: 28
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Particularly fun were the 2 captain & no minstrel groups we were running in our lvl 35-ish, including GA.
The other capt tended to get over involved in DPS activity. I went in for pet control/management and healer role, former minstrel that I am. This worked well and once I adjusted the captain play style, we were able to go far without a minstrel.
I would love to get the next captain higher so I could explore just how strong a healer I could be.
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<impatiently waiting for open beta>
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#6 Today, 07:35 AM
Ruthgarz
Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 30
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking in WoW terms very close to how Paladins were at release, and a little of the Druid. The Haralds can't compare to warlock pets.
Don't think in terms of character classes today, because they are so different than what they were to begin with.
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#7 Today, 09:28 AM
Ernest
Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 15
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the "What we wish other classes knew" thread, available here: forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=33284
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#8 Today, 11:38 AM
stpnwlf
Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 20
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I seriously think it will HAMPER your ability to figure out how best to play the captain if you keep trying to compare it to some other game's character classes. It isn't any of those and it's not really close enough for you to leverage the experience you have plying them, in my opinion. I really think the best way to approach Captain is to tell yourself, this is a totallly new concept - a melee/support class with a pet. I found myself inventing tactics and tricks I had never done before in 6 years of MMO gaming.
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#9 Today, 11:54 AM
Ghostiger
Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5
Re: Captain Info For A Newbie..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colfox
Never played WOW, but...
Actually, in general, Turbine has done a fairly decent job of making all the classes useful, without making any of them absolutely essential. I've run in, and heard of, some pretty wacky groupings. Any combination can work, if everyone knows what they are doing. There is no "perfect" grouping, because any combination can also fail horribly if people get stupid and try to use their "normal" solo tactics while in a fellowship.
I've found this to be pretty true. Player's grouping abilities have much more of an effect on a groups viability then their class abilities. Really any combination of classes can succeed. Of course that's not saying that there are some combinations that work better in some circumstances, but overall the 'Holy trinity' (healer, tank, dps) isn't a rule for grouping in this game.
And, for the record, grouping with other captains and/or lore masters is a ton of fun.